FG Women:
Do you all believe men are too stuck in their own ways to make the needed changes to attract or keep the right woman? Do you feel you would have to encourage those changes or do you feel men (in general) are wise enough to make the necessary adjustments for the right lady?

FG Men:

In all honesty, have you ever made the needed changes or adjustments to your lifesytle to attract or keep a certain woman? Was it worth it?

In all honesty, have you ever made the needed changes or adjustments to your lifesytle to attract or keep a certain woman?  

Like a Honda Accord, you can present a very good package and it will be ideal for more than enough "takers", but every one isn't going to buy it or feel it is for them. 

That is how I look at it.  I feel that I attract more than enough "takers" to keep my dating and romantic life pretty happy that I don't feel a need to make more than a few than a few "tweaks" as oppose to changes.

My girl and damn near all the sistas I've dated told me basically the same things... I maintain a consistant level throughout the relationship.  No big presentation during the beginning only to slack off towards the end.  The flip side to that is, the start isn't the really big "bang" to begin with...lol.

@Wood

I feel you bruh. Usually my attitude has been that if a woman can't accept me for everything that's good and bad about me than I kept it moving. But I also took some chances, tweaked a few things about my lifestyle to become more compatible for certain women and it wasn't a far reach. I would be inclined to make the proper adjustments again in the future for the right one that comes along as I would welcome the same from the woman as well. It's give and take when trying to merge two lifestyles. You would be surpised how a few changes could bring more people together if they would be willingto compromise.    

1. I think selfish people are stuck in their ways, so they won't change until it serves their interests to do so.  Unfortunately, if the person is still selfish, these changes won't last.

2. If men can get enough suitable women to put up with them, they won't change.  If they find themselves consistently losing out on "good" women, and they see that as a problem, the wiser men will begin to adjust themselves to get and keep a good woman, if that's what they want.

3. Now, I do not believe you attempt to change the core of the person.  They are what and who they are.  I think you can make it known - IN THE BEGINNING -  what your expectations are, and then allow the person you choose to date the opportunity to meet them (and they shouldn't be so far off from these from the get go).  But minor stuff (I'd like you to do X[show more non-sexual physical affection] because it does Y for me) is not unreasonable.

@JAT

I agree with #2. Some men may have to lose out on a few good women before they realize they need to make some changes. Regarding #3, I feel the minor things could eventually add up if they're overlooked and taken for granted. At first women will say they don't need affection or certain things but after they get situated in a relationship they'll try to use those things agaisnt a man. For example, some things you can't change or taught like sexual physical affecetion or techniques.

2. If men can get enough suitable women to put up with them, they won't change.  If they find themselves consistently losing out on "good" women, and they see that as a problem, the wiser men will begin to adjust themselves to get and keep a good woman, if that's what they want.

JAT:  Beyond a certain point, it doesn't come down to a good woman vs not a good woman, but more along the lines of aligning personalities and compatibilities.  There are plenty of good women that I've met during my time that I wouldn't want to keep as my woman, but that doesn't mean they may not be very compatible with another man.  Hey, why does it comes down to "putting up with them".

For example, I wouldn't do well with a forceful, very high fashion, or even a very "sassy" type of sista, but that doesn't mean that I need to adjust my expectations.  I like a sista with a quiet demeanor and fashion conscious, but not high fashion/style, etc.  But regardless of that, it doesn't take away their "goodness" for another brotha or even me, but I'm not compatible with those types of sistas in a serious relationship where things have to be shared on multiple levels.

I've had several GFs who had  taste for expensive things that I felt had priority above other things that were going on that would definitely conflict with mines in a marriage.  Many also wore certain type of clothing that I wouldn't go for in a marriage, and in knowing that, I would be a fool to try to fit that type of sista into my life on a deeper level... GF level, but not as a wife. 

I think the key is to make the adjustment and develop yourself to a level where as you present a very good package and only allow persons in your life whom you and the other person doesn't have to be jammed into each others lifestyles to try and have a relationship.

Now Mass, my girl is pretty clean and orderly, and so I'm I, but I do see some domestic adjustments that I will have to make due to the consideration of others.  I'm an early riser as oppose to her wanting to stay in bed, so I will have to keep my early morning workout on the quiet side.  I drink out of all my jugs in the refridge, but I will have to either sneak a drink out of the jug or use a cup...lol.  She like to take her shoes off at the door, and I would rather vacuum and clean the carpet more often, so I will purchase a few fold up small chairs to prop up near the entrance so I can take off my shoes.

My dog is an outside/ inside dog, so we will have to negotiate on that one.  The boy like to come in and chill at times, and I know alot of women doesn't want an 100lbs dog roaming the house.

@ Mass:

If you have needs, you need to make those known.  A lot of women try to change up the game once they wake up in a relationship that they settled for, and now they don't want to waste the time and energy that they have invested.  But, if you are with a person and they never "learned" certain things, they can be taught as long as it is not ridiculous.

@ Wood:

In my last comment, I was talking about a man who lets good women that are his 'type' go.  Plenty of people think they have infinite possibilities when it comes to relationship, and they feel like there is always an upgrade available.  yet, they fail to see that THEY are the constant in all these situations, and that they need to do better in order to keep a relationship with a good person.

I've never been a date the guy you can't see yourself with kind of person, so your serial dating Ms. Right Now kinda irritates me.  Especially because (in my opinion) it seems like you were the only one to know that a relationship was never going to go the distance.

In my last comment, I was talking about a man who lets good women that are his 'type' go.  Unless you have talked to the particular man, it is hard to really say what his "type" is and how this "type" fulfills his requirements for a potential wife.  I mean, if you want to really get down to types, that can go from her spending habits, physical, education, disposition, attitude, history, etc.  A person could be the other's "type" on one level, but a "hell naw" on the next level. Plenty of people think they have infinite possibilities when it comes to relationship, and they feel like there is always an upgrade available.  You know JAT, sometimes when I read your posts, I feel like the "hit dog", in that you are really talking about me.  I went to the CIAA Tourneyment in Charlotte this past weekend, and I came across and talked to plenty of sexy and fine educated sista, some I've met that weekend, some I've known for a short time, and a few I've known for many years.  Nice sistas that got it going on from a distance.  This one sista who lives about fifty minutes from me in Cincinnati, whom I've known and actually try to get with many years ago, and she was also feeling me back then, but she always tell my boys that I'm BSs and never wanted to get together.  One of the fellas asked why, and I told him that she, like many have had at least one annual hook-up when I first met her.  I reminded him of the events that we saw when I first met her... "my type" of women doesn't engages in casual sex, expecially some annual out of town casual hook-up. 

With many brothas, it isn't a matter of finding a better options, but that person is an option that you know you don't want on a certain level.

I've heard this and I'm sure others have also.  Many times a brotha will marry a sista who many sistas feel isn't his type or isn't as pretty as his previous GFs, etc.

 
Each person has his/her side of the "coin" that they are looking at when it comes to romance. I've never been a date the guy you can't see yourself with kind of person, so your serial dating Ms. Right Now kinda irritates me.  Yeah, but I'm "irritated" by many sistas who have no problem with being that "Ms Right Now" for years in various casual relationships with all kinds of brothas with not one problem, but gets in my face with all these new found BS Steve Harvey standards and requirements and trying to convince me how conservative they are by making me wait... that pisses me off.

Especially because (in my opinion) it seems like you were the only one to know that a relationship was never going to go the distance.  Many times I brotha would be dating and thinking he has a potential "keeper", but all along, she is either sexing FB, or is feeling another man and stringing other along until she makes up her mind.  From a brothas side of the coin, we are many times the last to know a lot of sh.t that we wouldn't go for "if we only knew".

When it comes to love and romance...

Let Lovers Beware.

I agree with JAT's observations and can't really add much more to that.

I do believe that both men and women will make "adjustments" for someone they really care about and want to be with. 

As for changing WHO they are...can't be done.  Our CORE only changes when the change is motivated by life experiences, experiences that often deeper than those we experience within a relationship.  Just my 2.5.

I have made those changes to keep a woman. I believe to get her...I was just being me. If she didn't like that then it wasn't supposed to be in the 1st place. Problem is with all relationships there are some things that will need to be tweaked...no one is the perfect match.

How did it work out? Well I'm single now but I don't believe it was because of my changes. Those changes often times were out of respect for our relationship or to add to the security needed to have trust in a person.

I think that some change is needed in all relationships...it's called compromise. As long as you don't lose yourself and change to someone else and as long as all the changes are modifications...then things are for the better!

@ Wood:

1. Nope, I'm brash enough that if I'm pointing a comment your way, I will include an @wood, lol.  If it's tight it's right.  J/k

2. I think men know what their type is moreso than women, simply because women judge more factors and weight them differently.  You've made your type pretty well known, and most of it is not related to a physical description.  Could you profile any of the women here on FH and identify their type? 

3. Women are listening to Steve Harvey, a man who for many years was a dog and decided to clean up his act when he got old and got tired of being out there?  Really?  Most, if not all, of the salient points in his book were things that men and women had heard before.  And, it's soooo rich to me that he decided to lecture women instead of dealing with his brethren  /rant. 

4. I don't think people should be in relationships and engaging in casual sex.  If you are unattached, I feel like you should use protection and keep your eyes open.  For women, getting your groove on has, in addition to the physical/health risks, the risk of losing out on someone you could be with.  However, if a woman is keeping the goodies to herself while she determines which of her suitors is best for her, then why do you look down on her while she decides? If you aren't married or seriously involved, and you aren't sexually active, what's the problem?

5. We could go back and forth all day about who strings who along more, who is playing games and can't make up their minds, etc.  I'll say this - finding someone that you click with at the exact moment that they are unencumbered and you are unencumbered and you BOTH are emotionally ready for a serious relationship is a statistically rare event.

Could you profile any of the women here on FH and identify their type?  I can't do that because I've never met anyone here on Flagler Hill, but I will say that I can find a sista attractive even if she isn't my ideal "type".  My "ideal" type is a brown tone sista who is on the tallish side of 5'7" - 5'9", tone with a bit of athletic appearance.  Natural complexion, style of dress, personality and mannerism.

My physical "ideal" type carries little if no influence in what I look for when dating and it overshadows absolutely no other attributes.

I would choose to get to know a sista that I found to be attractive and responded to me with a greeting with a warm smile and a hello, as oppose to my "ideal" type who greeted me with a dry hello... even if both seems to have an attraction to me later on.  I will gravite to the warm greeting and my physical "ideal" type can find another man to get to know.
However, if a woman is keeping the goodies to herself while she determines which of her suitors is best for her, then why do you look down on her while she decides? If you aren't married or seriously involved, and you aren't sexually active, what's the problem?

JAT, sometimes folks forgets how one dot connects to the other dot...
Connect these.  The romantic climate that is out there is that everybody got somebody somewhere... one "dot".  That isn't absolute true JAT, but that is the climate that is prevalent due folks casual sexual behavior.  JAT, I don't look down on casual sex, hell, I would be the first man in line to get some casual loving... but you better believe that I'm the last man way in the back of the line if that same sista starts talking about a commitment...lol.
The "problem" is that many brothas are not going to stay in relationship mode and take a sista seriously when she is likely sexing others (in our minds) 2nd "dot"

JAT, like I stated a thousand time that sistas think they can keep brothas lingering out there in serious dating mode, and then can just pull either brotha in for whenever she is ready for a serious commitment.  I don't think that has been work out very well.  That method work out fine during your younger BF/GF and casual hook-up years, but is proving disasterous when you guys find it is time to land a husband...

it aint gonna work.

I listened to Chelz, Loveless, the sista with that "Mr Office" down in Cincinnati...whats her name, and a few other here on FH talk about dating, and I read exactly what I see in real life, and that is you sistas have one method of operation when it comes to dating, and it is the same style and method that you developed when you were teens.

I think it is very amusing and I have always found it to be hilarious.  Even that Helena Andrews utilizes the same dating method, from what I read.

@ Wood:

Once again, in the comment, I said if the woman was not having sex with anyone while she limited her suitors down to 'the chosen one.'  So, basically, if a woman is not seeing you and only you, no matter if you are the best fit for her or not, she's got to be sexing someone and you won't take her seriously when it comes time for a commitment.  News flash, it takes time to get to know someone well enough to truly begin to let down your guard with them.  Personally, I think women have more to lose in dating because they disproportionately want serious relationships whereas men usually ride the gravy train of their privilege until their age (or desire for children within a marraige) trumps whatever financial attractiveness they have.  Being male, showing interest, and being eligible (to my standards) does not equal enough for me to qualify you for the position as my BF/SO/etc. The hypothetical profile that I would have developed for you was not related to the physical.  Especially since, a lot of men do not end up with the physical type of women that they say they like most.  And I am glad that you are so open minded as to not be limited to your physical type.

So, basically, if a woman is not seeing you and only you, no matter if you are the best fit for her or not, she's got to be sexing someone and you won't take her seriously when it comes time for a commitment.  LOL, JAT, it is the Sista-hood who are having these relationship issues with brothas who they find themselves wanting to be with beyond a certain level.  Personally, I don't linger in any grey issue for long while dating... if I have serious intention.  If we seem to have an rapport and she is coming across as wanting to get to know me on a serious level, I will flat out ask her if she has a lover...she can lie, but I don't want to consider dating anyone on a serious level if she is sexing someone else... frequently or infrequently.  If I don't ask or know, that says something... that it will go no further than "GF only".  It is serious business, and a brotha has to manage his romantic affairs.
News flash, it takes time to get to know someone well enough to truly begin to let down your guard with them.  I agree, but as everybody and their puppy knows, is that those "guards" aren't for someone she is just sexing, but only for the man she want to get to know on a serious level.  A sista should take her time, but it could only do her some good if she were to let any and all men she is dating know that she isn't sexing anyone.  She can be hush all she want because she owes no one anything, but it a great risk if she want a serious relationship.

The hypothetical profile that I would have developed for you was not related to the physical.  Elaborate, I'm curious.

Brothas seem very flexible in this dating game, we can stay single and run the sistas, linger on the eternal BF/GF level, or get married to "the one".  It seems like if the romantic situations doesn't get back to our wallets, we can roll with the flow of the romantic tides.

@ Wood:

I'm just going to regurgitate words from your comments as to the profile of your "type"

You like a woman who:
1. Demonstrates good character through being only sexually accessible to one person at a time (ie boyfriend, husband)
2. Can cook
3. Is willing to pay for dates
4. Is pleasant/friendly
5. Is not into shows of financial means through clothes, purses, cars, etc.
6. Is closer to old-fashioned than modern woman on the spectrum of black women

You like a woman who:
1. Demonstrates good character through being only sexually accessible to one person at a time (ie boyfriend, husband)  You are right, and that is a must if she want to push it beyond GF/BF level.  If not, it doesn't matter.  I've had more than my share of partners and I don't want a woman like me.  She would have to be my "better half". 
2. Can cook  Yep, I like a Sunday meal.
3. Is willing to pay for dates  Yep.
4. Is pleasant/friendly You got that right too.
5. Is not into shows of financial means through clothes, purses, cars, etc.  Finances are a big problem in relationship beyond marriage.  Most folks like "nice" things, including me, but feel the madness she be subtle.
6. Is closer to old-fashioned than modern woman on the spectrum of black women.   I don't know what a "modern woman" is as oppose to an ingtelligent, responsible, savvy, prudent, pleasant, and responsive "old fashion" woman, but I get the impression that "modern" mean elavated hassles and headaches that many brothas ain't buying...lol.

I'll take the old fashion one...lol.

Typos again: madness should be subtle... somebody bumped my arm...lol.

I think a man would change for the right woman. My mama always said that if you can change the girls, you can change the boys. Boys do things to impress girls. If the right woman come along a man would do things he never thought he would do. I changed a Jehovah Witness into a Christian because his mama said he shouldnt be with me because we were of different faiths. I told him lets try out different faiths and then decide because I knew I wasnt changing. He became a christian and now I am no longer with him but he's still a christian.