Flagler Hill - Love and Relationships
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September 9th 2010
Ending it because it was undefined
by pinkribbngal on July 13, 2010, 12:48 pm in Dating
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I just read a blog post about being in undefined relationships. It really struck a nerve for me.  I just spent 2-3 months in a very undefined relationship. To say that the lack of definition drove me batty... would be very unfair and critical to bats. (laughs) But it did bother me intensely that I was dating someone who refused to date me back.

Oh... before this gets too wayward... he was a wonderful guy. Always a gentleman, lots of fun... just no commitment. And while normally that would not have bothered me a lot, at this point in my life it is a true waste of time. To look at us from the outside, you could have easily thought that we had been together for some time and were a happy couple. In my words we were dating. In his, we were "kicking it".

WTF is kicking it? And why should I still be doing that at 40 ?

It became the elephant in the room with us and every time we were together... we found ourselves eating elephant azz sandwiches. All the time. Every time. We talked more about the non-relationship we were having than we talked about what we wanted to be when we grew up or where we thought space travel might be in 40 years... Somedays I literally wanted to jump up, slap him, scream in his face to SHADDUP ALREADY about the ex-wife and the old girlfriend and just run away.

But I didn't. I tried to be understanding that he really felt strongly about not being in a relationship. I tried to be lighthearted and easygoing about not dating but just kicking it. I tried to relax -- his words -- and go with the flow. Problem for me was... I was relaxed and I was flowing. And it was easy for me to see and for others as well... that we were flowing right into a relationship. Totally against what he wanted for his life.

In the beginning when it started becoming obvious that we really were digging each other, I took him at his word that he didn't want a relationship. Knowing that I did, I tried to end things two months ago. That was a mistake -- my timing was awful -- because we ended up talking until 3am about how we could be good together, how he was good for me (he was) and how his life was too complicated for a relationship (it wasn't).

I think (and this is just my guess) that he felt that his life was just not ideal for beginning any serious relationship. I understand that perspective because as a breast cancer survivor, I often feel that my life is just too burdensome to ask anyone to sign up for this. But I recognize with myself that a lot of that reasoning is fear that no one will opt to sign up for this life with me. For me, his life was fine. He was healthy, his kids were healthy and he had a great relationship with their mothers. Score! He was a well-adjusted and normal black man. I was fine with that. I wasn't fine with feeling compared to the ex's. I wasn't fine with feeling like I was only good enough for partying and drinking. And I really wasn't fine with that kicking it bs.

Initially, I agreed that we would kick it through the summer and then re-evaluate at the end of the summer. In the beginning we were planning a million things to do this summer -- trips, concerts, restaurants, games, theater, etc. If you can think of it, we probably did and were going to do it. And when we started hanging out, it was fun. So much fun. But then, he started getting nervous. If we went out on the same day of the week every week -- he worried that we were creating a habit. When we talked on the phone more than a few times a week, he worried that we were becoming too close. When we went out to eat three weeks in a row, he worried that we were becoming too much like boyfriend and girlfriend.

At that point, I started to slowly unravel and lose my sense of balance. Sigh. How do you get to know someone if you can't spend time with them because they are afraid that you're getting too close and too involved? How do you even make the decision whether or not you really dig someone if everytime you talk to them about their life, you see the calculations in their head while they try to figure out how far is too far to go in this conversation?

During one of our early conversations he told me that he didn't ever want to get married again and he didn't want any children. I asked him why then he was trying to get close to a woman who had never been married and didn't have any children? Where is the logic in that? I respected his wishes for his life and I thought that if I scaled back my expectations then things would be okay.

But I am a breast cancer survivor and while it may seem like it doesn't really have a place in this story -- its a huge part of who I am and how I see myself right now. I have been the "fun" friend for a long time. I have been a bar fly and a club-goer for years (though I turned in my club card awhile ago). I understand that I can be the friend that people call when they want fun people to be at their party. But while that is fun, its not sustaining. And when you're sick or down... the folks at the bar and at the club aren't the folks who will be by your hospital bed holding your hand. I'm in a new place now and I'm trying to cultivate relationships with more depth than a Long Island Ice Tea can provide.

For his comfort we stopped "dating" early on and resolved to "kick it". For his comfort we downgraded recently from "kicking it" to just friends. When we went out as just friends, it didn't exactly work when he tried to hug and kiss me at different points in the evening. And when he off-handedly blew me off on Friday evening... I reached an impasse. I could keep downgrading my relationship with him to help him with his ever-increasing discomfort with liking me. Or I could stand up for myself and what I wanted for me... and walk away.

So... I pulled out my sassiest heels... and I strutted off into the sunset. My heart does miss him a bit. He was a lot of fun and a really good guy. But, I think we were ultimately doing each other a disservice by not remaining true to the boundaries we had set for ourselves.

Have you dealt with the undefined relationship? And if so, how did it turn out? Did you make it work (please leave detailed notes if you did)? Or did you walk away?
On July 13, 2010, 1:40 pm Wood says:
I talk about this issue all the time... you fell in what I call the "romantic loop-hole", and I made  a post about it.  This is the new issue that sistas in the 30 and up age range keep running into.  Is this the same guy who you engaged into a sexual affair with a few months ago?  If this is the same guy you talked about earlier, why would you wan him to "downgrade" from a FWB relationship into a serious and committed relationship.  From many brotha's point of view, the easy and breezy sexual, and non committed relationship is the better option.

And while normally that would not have bothered me a lot, at this point in my life it is a true waste of time.

Your comments and sentiments are ones that for some reason or another, the Sistahood never see this issue coming up in their romantic lives.  They foresee themselve being about to close the deal in the romantic lives whenever they desire.  For me and many men like me that many of you sistas find desirable and think have some potential for "more"; we didn't take anything or waste any time that you didn't willingly and freely given up before during your time. 

Two or three months isn't a bad deal...considering.  As you know, many of us will give you an empty title of a GF only... it give us a few year to really enjoy your companionship and special moments with you.

You sistas should except some blame for this behavior, because far too many of you have engaged in these casual relationships for many years, only to find yourselves wanting to flip the script during this moment in time.

Pink, I feel that it is too late for many of you sistas to cut off the best times that many of us brothas really enjoy, only to give us grief of wanting to raise the bar with commitment and expectations... many of us don't take many of you sistas seriously.
On July 13, 2010, 1:53 pm pinkribbngal says:
Interesting.

First, no. Not the same person. That person served his purpose. He is not the guy from this post. He may serve that purpose again in the future. Our relationship is quite defined.

Second, is this a gender issue or one of age or something else? I am an admitted former commitment-phobe. I'm neither ashamed nor embarrassed to tell that. So my perspective about this isn't about closing some deal whenever I choose to -- its more about knowing exactly what I can and cannot accept. If being undefined works for some men, by all means... do you. If it works for some women (as it has worked for me in the past) again... do you. But when you walk in the door knowing what you're looking for and it has by definition specific parameters and boundaries... then... settling for something else is a set-up.

I set myself up by not believing that I was truly looking for a commitment. I thought that maybe (hear that hesitation?) I didn't want that and could be happy with something different. It wasn't true. And when I realized it wasn't true, I tried repeatedly to relay that to him.

I think we then ran into the battle of the egos. Even when I ended it the other day (which was like my 5th attempt to do so).. he came back with "change your mind please"... so, knowing that I want something different from him he still wants to pursue this undefined ghostly "thing"?

Pass.
On July 13, 2010, 2:13 pm crucial63 says:
WTF is kicking it? And why should I still be doing that at 40 ?
Kicking it is a term used to state that two people are doing things together past being friends, but not anything meaningful at he time and or in the future. Hence when people say we kicked it for a min, or I'd like to kick it with him/her. It's an accepted term to give the relationship some non-definition definition!!!!!!!!!!!

Initially, I agreed that we would kick it through the summer and then re-evaluate at the end of the summer. This was the turning point in my opinion as you agreed to go with something that was totally against what you want in a relationship for yourself.

For his comfort we stopped "dating" early on and resolved to "kick it". For his comfort we downgraded recently from "kicking it" to just friends. When we went out as just friends, it didn't exactly work when he tried to hug and kiss me at different points in the evening. WOW so this was all about what was comfortable for him until you just couldn't take it anymore.

I love an undefined relationship as it goes like this. I call you and you have time for me cool, if I call you and you don't cool. Feelings are not involved in an undefined relationship if they are then one or both parties are confused as hell. If nothing has been established neither one can cheat on the other as their is nothing to cheat on.
Honestly PINK I do place the major part of the blame on you as by your words he told you over and over again that he didn't want the things you did and you kept making him COMFORTABLE. Still love you baby-girl
I totally understand your point about the breast cancer I love the fact that your a strong survivor GOD bless you. Baby-girl when the hand writting is on the wall don't erase it, read it then read it again once you know the meaning act accordingly. Clearly all he wanted was someone to kick it with from the start.
On July 13, 2010, 2:20 pm Wood says:
I'm agreeing with you with not wanting to settle for what you know you are not willing to except in a relationship.

its more about knowing exactly what I can and cannot accept.  From a brotha viewpoint, and one that I've engaged in during my early twenties, many of us do not feel that this position is consistant.  My circle of friends have always talked about how your very statement applies to some men, but not others.  We even talked about how how some guys... and I'm one of them, who this statement is applied to, but we know that with most or far too many sistas who have this position, it doesn't mean every man.

I'm not saying that you shouldn't expect or do what you feel it is necessary to do, but as a man, we often time operate against what you sistas may desire from your mate... we may try to BS you sistas quite a bit.  As you saw in him, you are intending to do what best for you, and he was trying to work his plan to get what he wanted from you.

This guy acted in a very simular manner in which I would have acted, but I've learned over the years to just give a sista a title.  It doesn't change my actions or how I respond, but it keeps a sista's mouth shut for a few.  I'll talk, listen, hold your hand, introduce you to "momma"... although, she will be prepted on my real position, spend money and time with a
sista who I have absolutely no desire to marry.

is this a gender issue or one of age or something else?
Both.  As you sistas grow older and desire more in your relationships and from your mate, the only thing that really changed during all those years, were your expectations from your relationships with those men...

the men hasn't really changed that much from what he wants and were getting from you sistas.

On July 13, 2010, 2:26 pm pinkribbngal says:
Absolutely! And that was the problem. I kept doubting what I wanted because clearly... this man wanted me.

sigh. But he didn't. I could have been anybody... he just wanted someone to entertain him for awhile, when he was free.

Been there, done that and its not fun anymore. The problem for me with kicking it is that it masquerades as friendship. And nobody is against friendship, right? I mean, two people who like each other should be friends.

But friendship has its own parameters and boundaries and you know where you stand with your friends. I have lots of friends, many of them male... we don't "kick it". LOL. We talk. We hang out. We talk about our lives. But there is no emotional tangle because we ain't confused about what we're doing. We're not in some amorphous hybrid of a platonic and romantic coupling. I can go out for drinks with my homies and never have them touch my butt or my breasts... or lean in for a good night kiss.

That moves things in another direction. And if we're going there... then everytime we spend time together, we're bonding in a different way. Different synapses are linking etc. and so on.

Stay within the lines and you avoid all this confusion. I think that the constant need for push-back from brothers has gotten really ridiculously tired. If you don't want a relationship its simple... stop acting like you do. Stop playing a boyfriend on tv if you don't want to be treated and thought of as one.

Simple. Boundaries. Everybody needs to get some.
On July 13, 2010, 2:29 pm pinkribbngal says:
@Wood... y'all are funny. Well, I have to say this... I am not in the mood nor the mindset for the game of "just give her a title". Thats that crap right there.

If you don't want to be treated like a boyfriend, don't act like one. If you want to just be friends, stop trying to get the azz too. If you just want the azz then follow whatever parameters she sets up to make that possible... and stay in your freaking lane.

This is not calculus. It ain't that damn hard.

I like you. You like me. We enjoy each other's company. One person wants to ultimately get married. The other doesn't.

bye.
On July 13, 2010, 3:27 pm Nocturnal says:
I'm in an undefined relationship/FWB/situation right now (have been for over a year now).  How did it turn out? Well, obviously it's still an ongoing thing...so time will tell. Am I making it work? I see other women (which she says doesn't bother her...but it does...because, in her own way, she's possessive and wants me around for her own reasons) and I have to check myself (from time to time) from falling into a dillusional state and staying realistic. So, no, I have not chosen to walk away. Well, not for good... I've walked away only to come right back (that's about me not her).

 In many ways it's not a healthy situation because she has a serious drinking problem (alchoholics aren't known for being very stable mates) plus she's a narcissist with self-hate issues. All these things are BIG RED flags and sometimes I ask myself 'hey, what's wrong with me', right? But I don't stress about it too much...and you can't help what you like. However, if things turn out bad I can't blame anybody but myself. I suppose when I get bored enough I'll step.
On July 13, 2010, 3:41 pm crucial63 says:
@noc Thats real talk for you man, I thank you for the open and honest self assessment. All I can say to that is it seems like you have come to grips with your situation and knowing is half the battle.
On July 13, 2010, 7:28 pm MassAppeal says:
@Pink

You're my girl but I'm a little surprised how you handled this or the expectations you set. It was clearly written in the wall and if he was talking about his ex or other women he was looking for emotional support. Based on what you wrote, he seeemd vulnerable and seemed unwilling to be alone. Give him credit for being honest and not giving you a fake title like Wood said because you would have only wasted more time. He also appears to keep his distance because he might have fear of being abandoned again so he stays within his comfort zone. I'm sure every brother has done that before...I have many times.

@Noc

Appreciate the honesty, I've been in your shoes plenty of times and no one ever wins. I like how you're aware of how you really feel.
On July 13, 2010, 7:35 pm kmrurray says:
Ms. Pink, I have been there. You have to respect the guy because at least he was always honest about what he wanted with you and from you. Some men can't and don't do that.

Men's and women's emotional makeup are so different. We  women can't put all our eggs in one basket without being overwhelmed if one cracks. What I mean is? You were giving everything to this man, and you assumed he was feeling you the same way. I believe he was feeling you, but not enough to want to be in relationship,be it fear of repeating the pass or the stress of a committement  or fear of his mate changing and taking the fun out of the relationship (some sisters change after a committment and marriage). What ever his reasons, he was honest. We females have to learn to take men at their word. They are hunters and know what they want. No matter how much you give although he may take doesn't mean he will stay.  I never understood how a man could truly love a women, but sleep with someone else, and it not matter ( although I don't think it is right). For us, women, we can't disconnect like that.  Also, I do not understand, why we think that we can change a man or that if he continues to be around you, he  may change. It seldom happens.Therefore, I am grateful you did walk away. I pray that if you are ever in that situation again ,that you will take a man at his word and not lower your standards. Stay blessed and healed.
On July 13, 2010, 7:38 pm pinkribbngal says:
@Mass... I respect that he was looking for emotional support. But he wasn't really willing to take it. Anytime it felt like we were moving too close he set up more barriers. He disappeared for a few weeks and then bounced back with "I think I'm tired of dating and I need a sabbatical"... um, there's nowhere to go with that.

I feel weird right now. But I don't know what to do with someone who doesn't really want to be with me... and doesn't seem to sure how to be without me either.
On July 13, 2010, 7:44 pm pinkribbngal says:
@kmrurray while i respect his honesty -- as far as it went -- but it wasn't a case of pink being swayed into believing that she could change him. i really just wanted to get to know him and see what it was that he was worried about. never got to it. maybe one day we will... who knows but i doubt it. i'm happy with my decision -- even though it was delayed by a couple of months. its just too bad. but he's a good guy, someone great will come along for him... probably already there. :)
On July 13, 2010, 7:52 pm wotubenmissn says:
Pink, true friendships take time to develop.  While there is no set amount of time for a friendship to be "true" it should not come as a big surprise if a 2-3 month "friendship" is ultimately not what one thought it was.  The problem for me with kicking it is that it masquerades as friendship.  Once you in your mind decided you wanted more than the friendship and that expectation was met with his insisting on merely "kicking it," you knew your needs were not being met.  So at that point, because you decided to continue in the situation, you agreed to "kicking it," and that's all it should have been in your mind, no more, no less, and then you in turn would inform him what "kicking it" meant to you, just to clear the air.

If you don't want to be treated like a boyfriend, don't act like one. The problem with this statement is u appear to be relying on your definition of being a bf.  His may be totally different.  So for example he may feel a bf makes sure he sees you 3x a week, calls twice a day, may send flowers or whatever.  Whereas your definition may be that a bf merely sees you at least on the w/e, or call once a day.  If he does the latter, you're thinking he's acting like a bf, and he's thinking he's acting like y'all are kickin' it.

I do disagree with Wood's giving of an empty title, but at the same time the emptiness of Wood's gf title merely extends to "no plans to marry."  This assumes it is empty b/c all gf's want to marry their bfs.  While we know this is true for all of us cool mofos (j/k) there is an evaluation taking place on both ends. When 1 concludes there is no marriage in sight they can either arbitrarily volunteer that info, reveal it when asked, and/or modify behavior.  To me, Bf/Gf is merely that.  That's why there's terms called fiancee', and wife, 1 proceeds the other.
On July 13, 2010, 7:54 pm Trubutee says:
I can understand you're point. I too had a battle with cancer and understand how time is so important and not to be wasted. It was only 2/3 month, not 2 or 3 years, like I felt I wasted with a guy who too was not willing to even discuss the relationship or where he wanted it to go.

 The "kicking" thing is I guess ok; in the 1st few months, like to your situation. I feel you are still getting to know each other at that stage. But if you needed more of a committment, I do see that being an uneasy place to be.

I left the undefine relationship, and was a much happier person. I had to do it for me and felt I deserved all or nothing. I was not looking for a ring, just to know that we were committed to each other.  He was not ready at that time. But later wanted to committ, but I did not. I was dating and enjoying what he was doing in our relationship. No pressure, stress, or ties to any man. So, the tables turned and for the better for me.
On July 13, 2010, 7:54 pm wotubenmissn says:

My infamous story again. I had an acquaintance that I was kicking it with, strictly platonic level. Though she had a bf, and I was very much interested in this wonderful woman who seemingly fell into my lap, I did not disrespect their situation, and truly approached it platonically. We had a miscommunication where she genuinely felt that an action of mine was a lame azz juvenile attempt to hit on her. Aside from the fact that only Herb Talbert would have tried something like that, aside from the fact that I am a grown azz man and it would have been totally out of character for me, aside from the fact that I never initiated any physical contact with this woman (but happily accepted it), despite the fact that I swallowed my pride and apologized for something I did not intend to do in the least, she came to this conclusion. Yes it still bothers me lol.

To make matters worse, she would not even take 5 minutes to talk to me about it. A short time later when I finally did see her in a neutral setting and she still would not speak, I made it a point to ask point blank if we were ever friends. She said, “No!” So in my mind there was nothing more for me to say. It made it easier for me to move on from it. That was a “kicking it” situation, no more no less, there was no loss of friendship. It sounds like you are having a similar conclusion.

On July 13, 2010, 8:14 pm MassAppeal says:
@Pink

I feel you. It sounds like your finally listening to what your gut was telling you long before. Perhaps there was some vulnerability on your part? Perhaps you were caught up with the "idea" of being with the guy. 
On July 14, 2010, 2:26 pm Wood says:
The "kicking" thing is I guess ok; in the 1st few months, like to your situation. I feel you are still getting to know each other at that stage.  This romantic protocal is how the Sistahood keep getting bit on the ass.  You guys have a one dimensional and short sighted view of how this actually plays out... even when you see this and keep experiencing the results.

It goes like this, men meet and tries to get to know woman. Woman and man starts getting closer, but both parties may or may not be entertaining other offers and keeping those options open and don't want to cut other ties with other potential.  Man and woman make love, woman likes men's loving, she want more loving and his time.  Man may or may not have others "options" that he was exercizing.  Woman catches feeling as she gets to know man and with his good loving sealing the deal.

Women love the potential escape route that the "going with the flow" affords them if she doesn't like his loving, or she meet another suiter, but this flow usually entails them eventially giving up some loving to somebody, and at the same time allows the man to continue or keep collecting additional sistas while getting the loving from her... poor method of dating for woman, but a bounty for brothas.

What usually happens is she likes what she sees and feels, catches feeling and within a few months she tries to lock him down, but he want to continue exactly like things have been going.

Women goof up with thinking just because she comes around, he should come around and want to be with her... women in general are dumbfounded by why this romantic protocal is ass backward and is hard to make it work for them.
On July 14, 2010, 3:14 pm MsValleyG says:
@Pink: Well at least you came to your senses & went with your gut feeling. If you're looking for commitment & he clearly wasn't, no need in sticking around... I don't feel I've ever been in such a situation b/c the men I've dated (or who have been interested in me & vice versa) have always tried to seal some deal... They always try to LOCK ME IN TO EXCLUSIVITY too quickly & when they do, DISASTER awaits b/c it has never worked out. I, too was a commitment-phobe LOL! I have no idea why but I just don't like feeling boxed in too quickly. Any who, I guess over time I've grown through life experience (and in-experience LOL). I think I'm now more ready for a commitment than I ever was before, I guess. In any light, I definetely agree with the other comments, you did the right thing. Um you probably could've done it earlier & spared yourself this grief of wanting to know... however, life is a learning experience. Now you know what you're looking for at this time in your life.
On July 14, 2010, 4:47 pm uprising says:
I just went through this last year.  I mean it sounds exactly like what happened.  He didnt want to define us as being in a relatonship and I wanted more.  I felt like oh so im good enough to have sex with but not for anything else. And same as the article, he was really a good guy, treated me better than any man i've ever been with but just would not go there. Claiming to have had bad relationships in the past and all that funny business. We would take breaks apart every so often because of that "elephant" that just would not leave the room. And then we had trouble because sometime he would call and sometimes he wouldn't.  I called him last December, he didn't answer and didn't call me back. So I said you know what this time you come to me when you're ready im not going to chase him I told myself. Well he started making contact with me on Facebook and there was light I.M'ing and saying he wants us to talk. Then I started seeing him tagged in pictures every other day or so with the same woman...and im wondering...what's going on. This continued for about 3 weeks. The we I.M this one night and he says he wants to take me to dinner.  Well....about 4 days later his relationship status changed to "in a relationship" with the piture tagger.  I was livid! After seven months of up and down with this man and him fighting me on the "R" word, wth! I was pissed and you know what...I still am.
On July 14, 2010, 4:54 pm pinkribbngal says:
@uprising... feeling your pain sis. I agree with you about being pissed too. But what you went through is what I imagined going through myself. Telling me that you just want to kick it, tells me that you just want a placeholder until you're ready to get with the next girl.

I am sorry that you went through that.
On July 14, 2010, 4:58 pm crucial63 says:
@uprising All the signs were there as to the ending, I know that women love and love hard but there has to be a point where a person says enough is enough and just let things be.
I'm always accused of not caring enough as once you give me your ass to kiss I'm done, I don't need to talk to you to get closure, no last ditched dinner dates hell it's over you showed me so be it. I know I sound harsh but my life is way to precious to waste trying to change someone's mind about me.

By the ending of your ordeal I guess he was stalling until he found a woman he wanted to be in a relationship with. My question to you is if the same dude calls say in 6-15 months and say he was wrong and wants a serious relationship with you, your response would be?
On July 14, 2010, 5:03 pm crucial63 says:
@pink Telling me that you just want to kick it, tells me that you just want a placeholder until you're ready to get with the next girl. Men are often in the same situation where a woman just has us around until she finds the man she wants. Men we detach ourselves and let whatever be, I learned the hard way can't change someone into what you want them to be.

Thats why if she says lets just kick it I'm cool feelings are put away and she is treated just the way she asked to be treated.
Last time I told a woman lets just kisk it she still did the samethings she was doing when we were trying to have something WTF!!!!!!
On July 14, 2010, 5:18 pm pinkribbngal says:
@crucial... Thats why if she says lets just kick it I'm cool feelings are put away and she is treated just the way she asked to be treated.
Last time I told a woman lets just kisk it she still did the samethings she was doing when we were trying to have something WTF!!!!!!

That is what I tried to do. But he wanted the same treatment and perks as before the downgrade. I couldn't do it to myself. I knew it was the set up. If I can't put distance between us and keep it really platonic, then I have to walk away. That's just the way I am built.

On July 14, 2010, 5:20 pm crucial63 says:
What took you so long to walk away?
did you read my original post?
I sent you another message
On July 14, 2010, 5:24 pm pinkribbngal says:
I fell for the okey doke. "I'm good for you, why are you walking away?"  "We can be great together... how can you go?"

Yeah.

That bs right there... suckered me back in. And everytime I broached the subject again... similar comments would ensue. (shrug)

I thought I was being nice. I suppose I was but it wasn't time for niceness.

On July 14, 2010, 5:35 pm crucial63 says:
Honestly it's two fold as what black women don't get or understand is that we love the strenght of the black woman and the fact that when she loves she loves hard.
We tend to take advantage and then wonder where in the hell she went and why she left.
So I do understand it's a hard decision to make of which man to be strong for, so you have to step back and look at the whole picture and make the best adjustment
On July 15, 2010, 8:49 am Wood says:
Pink, just how do you plan to proceed when faced with the next budding relationship?  For the most part, most began in similar fashion of all the niceties and fun while each person gets to know the other.  I know that most women don't even want to commit to exclusively dating the guy too soon, because they want to consider other men that they have contact with, or someone new may come in the picture.
With most sistas, they don't feel like they can stake a "claim" on the guy as her man before a sexual relationship start... and therein lies the biggest risk that a woman feel she must take.  Most sistas know right off the top that if he is lacking in the bedroom, she will more than likely want to back out the deal while still in the "going with the flow" mode, and not have to unravel any sort of commitment.

I wonder just how can a sista avoid this situation of  normally that would not have bothered me a lot, at this point in my life it is a true waste of time.  This situation, is the one that sistas in this age range are finding themselve in the most, and as you and a few other sistas discribed, are not with the doo rag, saggy pants type of sloths, but the brothas who you guys feel has some potential for possibilities.

These aren't the obvious play boys or stand out players, but are the emotionally, educationally solid, prudent, financially solvent, nice type of guys.  I've have always talked about how these guys are the real heartbreakers, because unlike during many sista's "fun" times, they felt like these nice type guys would be there for them when they were ready to settle down.  The flip side of this coin, is that we picked up on this during our early twenties.

There is a saying that I've heard while in college...
Nice guys finishes last.

My .02 cents from a brotha's point of view.
On July 15, 2010, 9:12 am Wood says:
The comments were not made to address any right or wrong in the love game, but to shine some insight on the fact that the "Sistahood" operate as if they are behind a curtain and out of sight.  The brothas have a clear view of what is going on, and it reflect on our disposition towards and with regards to you sistas.

You have or will hear plenty of these type of stories from the serious minded thirty and up sistas; with many telling how they met this guy who they find very appealing.  And like you, you will hear them tell stories of how they do not want to waste their now precious time in these none defined or sometimes endless GF/GF relationships. You guys feel that if the relationship is going pretty good, in a few years, it should show signs of going on to the next level, but many times, the men feel it can stay right on the level it is currently at.

Pink, my circle of friends have always talked about this during our college days.  In fact, I've been told quite a few times by sistas that I was the type of guy that she would want to settle down with, but not the type that she is looking to get involved with now.

This doesn't cause bitterness, and it doens't mean that we had poor dating and romantic lives, but like you stated, brothas can clearly see the "hand" that many of you sistas are trying to play.

Like I stated, I just want to provide a perspective and viewpoint from many of us brothas.
On July 15, 2010, 10:01 am pinkribbngal says:
@wood... the problem with your analogy/perspective (as I see it) is that every sister isn't the same and every sister may not have skipped over the nice guys expecting them to always be there. that assumes that she/we dated "others" who weren't the nice guys and then suddenly realized that we were grown and needed something different. while that may be the case for some... it is not the case for me. i've always had relationships with the "nice" guys. the "others" (bad boys, etc.) were not appealing to me nor i to them. (a blessing as i see it)

it seems to me to be human nature that if you really like something (or someone) and you are concerned that it is in limited supply and/or is irreplaceable, then you do what you need to do to ensure that you have a steady supply and/or that you are the one who gains the irreplaceable thing/person in their life. i think that most women think of themselves as irreplaceable and in short supply. whereas most men seem to think of us as interchangeable.

i stick to my guns on my uniqueness... even if it seems that i am like some other woman, i am not her. commonalities does not equal same. if i am charged with not judging a current brother on a past one then its fair that a man not think of me as the same as the next or the former sister.
On July 15, 2010, 10:16 am pinkribbngal says:
i think its an easy cop-out to say that women in their 30's are suddenly serious-minded and looking to settle down with the nice guy they may have overlooked.
On July 15, 2010, 10:23 am wotubenmissn says:
Pink, does uniqueness=irreplaceable?  I think the notion that one is irreplaceable is a dangerous line to walk.  It approaches that flawless type mindset. 

Assuming a best case scenario where the guy is not automatically thinking you are the same as another, it would seem that you would then have to demonstrate your uniqueness (I'm sure you do).  He in turn could then confirm in his mind that is the case. 

Maybe I'm having an issue with that word choice.  If a woman is irreplaceable, it would seem that once a relationship ended, a man would never be able to find another woman...of course not that particular woman, but I would be able to replace her with another woman.  Using that word so freely will really have people thinkin that way like "Beyonce' and get put out on their B-day."
On July 15, 2010, 10:58 am pinkribbngal says:
@wotubenmissn ... not really thinking of beyonce when i said irreplaceable (not a huge fan of hers) but i concede that point of walking perilously close to a flawless mindset. not my intention. let me clarify.

your first car is irreplaceable. you can (and probably will) have other cars, better cars, more cars... but none will ever be your first car.

you can (and will) have other women in your life, just like i will have other men... but none of them will be you and will bring to my life what you did. you are irreplaceable in that sense that no matter who follows you, they are not you. now, they could be better or they could be worse, but they will not repeat what you brought to my life.

we're all unique and what we bring to a relationship is (or should be) as individual and different as we are.  unique does not equal flawless. in fact, its sort of the opposite in that your flaws create the uniqueness that you are.

one of my ex's may date another single woman with no kids who is a breast cancer survivor... but even with that much in common she won't be me. that doesn't mean that i was perfect. just that i was very much ... me.

i can't speak for all women, but when i meet guys i'm not looking to replace the one that got away. he's irreplaceable. that spot was taken. i would be looking for something different from the next guy, not the same thing. so when a guy says that women get serious minded in their 30's and want the nice guy but the nice guy knows her game and isn't really that interested in her ideas of relationship... that sounds like he's lumping all women into one general category and that we're all interchangeable. but we're not.

just like you're not. at least, that's how i see it. (shrug)

at this point, i'm sort of fatigued with the notion of dating entirely. but that's a different conversation.
On July 15, 2010, 2:10 pm wotubenmissn says:
So using your car analogy for love, people will have their first love, they can (and probably will) have other loves, better loves, more loves, but none will ever be their first love.

While each car brings a unique experience, if that car breaks down, gets wrecked, causing too many maintenance issues or whatever, one is not going to think that another car fails to have the ability to perform what one needs it to do.

I'm 100 with you on a person not being interchangeable, but for me I'd reserve the irreplaceable label to my spouse.  I guess I'm thinking more should be invested to get that kinda status.

My reference to Beyonce' was a tongue-in-cheek reference to the song 'Comfortable.,' plus I hadn't made a reference to her fine behind in a minute.

:p 
On July 15, 2010, 2:18 pm pinkribbngal says:
@wotubemissn ... you're welcome to hold out for whatever you think is appropriate labeling. i'm just expressing how i feel about myself. there is one me. others may be better, some may be worse... none are pinkribbon. simple.
On July 15, 2010, 4:14 pm uprising says:
@ Crucial - You're so right to ask that question! I dont know what I would do.  I really care about him and I felt as though he cared about me too. And i've been going over this in my head again and again and im just like I know this fool is going to call in a few months or something. Stupid me is probably going to just be like oh yeah I forgive you. I just really believe that he is a good gu that gets lost sometimes.  The back story to this is that he told me that because of the issue s he had he was seeing a therapist and it was no easy admission when he told me, I could tell he was struggling and he was ashamed.  So all that just makes me sympathize and it hard for me to kick a wounded dog. I don't know, but at this point, I feel like I would be so terrified to be with him because i'm scared he's going to hurt me.
On July 15, 2010, 10:52 pm Wood says:
I hear you Pink... so the next brotha you decide to get to know, this current experience and how it developed into the situaiton that it has, will not be of any influence in how you proceed with the new guy... each experience is to be taken entirely anew, and not build upon any previous one.

I just presented a slice of my experience and exposure regarding yours and other sista's sentiments about finding yourselves in these undesired romantic situations.  I'm more concern with sistas in general, expressing their displeasures, who are apt to bashed or look at the man's actions as not up to par or insufficient. 

In these type of situations, there is no fault in the man's actions... or lack of...lol.

Hey, we brothas don't need any more grief.
On July 17, 2010, 12:23 pm pinkribbngal says:
@wood... of course you take what you learn and experience into your new experiences. but you can't hold someone new accountable for what someone old did. that's called baggage and its a bad thing.

ultimately, the bruise is to my ego and the lesson is to trust my gut instincts more. a lesson that i am constantly reminded of.  no reason to bash someone because it didn't work out. that wasn't what this post was about. he's alright. nothing wrong with him it just didn't happen to work out. he is/was looking for something else. and i'm looking for something else. (shrug)

that's life. just have to keep it moving.
On July 17, 2010, 12:36 pm crucial63 says:
@uprising You can just be a voice and hear for him you don't have to let the feelings become strong again. stay out of situations that give him control, like being at his place or yours for that matter alwasy make it a public place where you have help in walikng away.
On July 19, 2010, 8:38 am Wood says:
Pink, that is true, but with so many sistas, this issue of continuously getting into relationships that never gets a title, or getting a stagnant title of GF for too long and only to end up back on the market a few years later.  With many sistas, this isn't a problem because they aren't looking to get married, but there are many who doesn't want to keep going from man to man like Tarzan swing  from vine to vine.

I heard a few sistas try for the title or commitment before coughing up the loving.  I can't imagine many in the Brothahood falling for that one.  Do you think that the Sistahood can realistically demand a commitment or some type of title from a potential before sex?  What if the sex is not fulfilling?

It is a slippery slope with the standard method of operation of meet, get  to know by talking on the phone and out on dates, have sex after a period of time, catch feeling and then look to build a committed relationship...

I like this method...lol.

If you treat them like a GF, and love them well, you can buy yourself some time.  I didn't tell you about a almost fool proof method of asking a sista with in three weeks of getting to know her, whether she want to date exclusively... you know the answer will most likely be a resounding "no"... it works for the most part.  You have to ask her at the right moment...when you can tell that she is liking you and enjoying your company, but before sex has occured.

There has been a few sistas who wanted to date exclusively; some were short lived, while others end up being meaningful relationships.

Most women don't want to cash in their "chips" too soon, but want to keep those options in their dating mix for as long as possible.  I don't take a sista seriously who is dating me along with other men.  I will date her and see her, but nothing serious is going to come out of it down the road.
On July 19, 2010, 1:21 pm pinkribbngal says:
For me, it isn't so much about needing a title... I need definition and boundaries. Without it, I just can't get all into it. If we have no titles and no definition or boundaries... the way that I interact will be different. In the past I ended up dating a guy for 3 years because in the beginning we had no definition and no boundaries and he became annoyed that I was actively dating other people. He assumed I was doing all sorts of things (that I wasn't actually) and asked for a commitment after a few months of just kicking it. It was a hard paradigm shift for me because I didn't have him in the boyfriend box, he was just "a friend". But... like I said, we ended up being together for a few years.

Everyone wants to play their hand for all its worth. No one wants to believe or wonder that they gave in on the negotiations too soon. Some women hold out on sex, others don't. Some hold out on commitment, others don't. And so forth. I don't have the energy for games like that. If I like you and you like me, let's move forward. If we're unsure about each other... I'm not bothering at all.

On July 20, 2010, 6:05 pm Wood says:
we had no definition and no boundaries and he became annoyed that I was actively dating other people.

If I was getting the loving and some other suckers were spending all the money... why would a man mess up such a good thing. 

As a man, I never needed any definitions nor boundaries in a relationship.  I always say that I was like a racoon as it has learned to adapt to most enviorments.  Within relationship, I have learn to adapt to most relationship situation... from meeting up on the side every few months when you are leaving the club at 3am smelling like a "club" and needing a sexual fix, all the way up to marriage.

Everyone wants to play their hand for all its worth. No one wants to believe or wonder that they gave in on the negotiations too soon.

I have always believed that, and refers to this situation as trying to hold out for the "better option".  In saying that, you would think that folks would have gotten better at achieving what they desire in their romantic lives... all this "negotiations" going on and folks still unsatified with how their romantic lives are going...lol.
On July 21, 2010, 6:21 am M1SSP1NK says:
Wow, I feel like I went through the same thing. My relationship was undefined as well. His reasoning had to do with boundaries and labels and whatever other bs. He would always say "whats the point of throwing a label on something if there is an understanding between the two?" This may catch alot of flack but to me a titile is important, its sets a foundation for who we are together. Its lets those on the outside looking in know that YES we are a couple. I feel like there should be a compromise. Im willing to wait while you get things in perspective for us to have a real relationship but at the same time you cant make me wait forever.  My mother told me the ultimate compliment a man can give a woman is to ask her to marry him. So in my opinion its also a compliment for him to take that step and be in a committed realtionship with her.  My situation ended as well because I realized after almost a year that he was never gonna compliment me in that way! :(
On July 21, 2010, 10:48 pm butterrica says:
I have been in this situation before.  It is imperitive that you take a man at his word.. Sometimes, we women hear but don't listen to what men say.. That gets us into a lot of trouble.  It took me a long time to realize how I contributed to situations that were not good for me. I would suggest to lok inside yourself for some soul searching.  I also think it is important to think about what you want in a reltionship and what you are willing to compromise on.. You should  not be putting your needs last for someone who clearly thinks about one person, himself... Dont waste time on these type of men... they will take up years of your life and keep on moving...  
On July 24, 2010, 12:18 am Sexyslim says:
@pinkribbngal
I'm sort of in the same dilema...I've been dating a guy for 4 months now and I want the relationship to be more defined.  We hang out and I've been introduced to some of his friends, but for some reason I'm feeling that things have changed.  How much time has to pass in order for me to let him know that I want more or that we need to figure out what we're going to do with this relationship before too much wasted time has passed by?  I want us to be a REAL couple.  Notice I said REAL...LOL.  I KNOW what I want and like you...dont want my time wasted.
On July 24, 2010, 8:10 am Wood says:
Sexyslim: Like I stated, it is the Sistahood's method of operation.  It is a extremely flawed method that is really based on a hope and a prayer.  You sistas don't have a reliable method of transitioning from one aspect of dating to a meaningful relationship.

You guys are doing it all wrong, and that is why sista after sista after sista, are finding themselves following the exact same path of uncertainties in their relationship.  You guys are smart, and intelligent, but you guys haven't found a way to make that smartness work for you within your relationships.

I tell this story all the time, of how you sistas are constantly trying to drag your dating and relationship option deep into your dating lives with a new men that you are feeling or dating, and no matter which man you chooses to be with, you are highly likely to end up in the same boat.

Pink made this statement: Everyone wants to play their hand for all its worth.

You sistas are not looking beyond your noses, if you think that the relationship begins when you feel you are ready to get serious with one man.  The relationship with a man begins when you first meet and begin dating. You have to win his heart buy gaining his trust, and you can't do that with the methodology.  You guys are doing what you want, but how you guys go about your program, has nothing to do with the inate behavior and feelings of a man.

We can't win you over without considering "women". In addition to considering "women", we have to consider a black woman, and within that, we have to consider the behavior and ways of that individual woman.

You guys have gotten so caught up, that too many of you have lost your ways in how to keep the men you are attracting.  You guys can pull them in , sex them up, but too many of you don't have the slightest clue as to managing your relationships from meeting him, to the alter.
On July 24, 2010, 8:37 am Wood says:
I knew this one guy whose dating protocal had this exact undecided/gray area built into his relationship dealing.  He had up to four or five woman all in this undifined area.  It was amusing how he would shuffle them in and out of his life and still remain friends with them...lol.  They never knew they were being played, because he would uitilize their own game plan against them.  I've done this and I have seen this tons of time by the brothas... it is sooo easy to do.

It is so funny that you guys approach isn't one of coming across as wanting a serious relationship, but it is one of "easy and breezy", and "going with the flow".  You come in as being "single", but having "friends"... that is set up #1. 

I'm talking about you setting yourself up.

I would take your shortsighteness a bit further, but actually asking the sista with in a couple of weeks if she want to date exclusively.  Imagine that, she would almost always say "no".  She would say  the usual of taking it slow, and how she want to be able to get to know me better... cool.

Now, imagine over time we become intimate and she start catching feelings and wanting definition.  I can back out of the deal by coming clean with how I really feel, or by stalling her by treating her like she is my girl without the title, or I can play her like she tried to play me and give her an empty GF title to keep her around for a year or two.

You sistas make things too easy.

You guys would do yourselve a huge favor by coming into the dating arena "clean", consistant and legit.

That method of trying to sneak some BS by the man under the radar, and trying to establish a serious relationship after you get caught up, isn't working out very well.
On July 24, 2010, 6:25 pm Sexyslim says:
@ WOOD...I dont know how you put me in this category by just that simple statement.  Dont make up your own story...Just read what I said...and I want you to know this...first of all, I am ONLY seeing him and him alone.  We ARE exclusive... secondly when I met him, I did express that I'm interested in a serious relationship...so I'm not sneaking nothing on him.  Third..I'm not caught up, he's digging me just as well and lets me know this.  I'm 41 yrs old and I KNOW that a relationship begans when you meet someone...My relationship has already begun with him...4 months ago.  NOTICE I said "I want our relationship to be more defined"   There are different levels/phases throughout a relationship when you are beginning and thats what I was speaking on.  Fourth...I dont use sex as a way to get guys.  I just cant figure out how sex even came into the conversation cause I never mentioned it.  Dont label/categorize/judge me without knowing me.
On July 24, 2010, 7:03 pm Wood says:
Slim, I made a generalization, which is generally true, even if it doesn't apply to you specifically.

a statement presented as a general truth but based on limited or incomplete evidence
Encarta ® World English Dictionary © & (P) 1998-2004 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.


On July 24, 2010, 8:37 pm pinkribbngal says:
@sexyslim... I'm with you. I was the same way. Clear as a bell from the gate. But, sometimes, some folks just can't reciprocate that same clarity. I see in hindsight that my mistake was believing that I could tolerate the ambiguity.

@wood... sex between ADULTS should not cloud the issue. If I can be really graphic... busting a nut really does not equal love or even real affection, if you're honest with yourself. Catching a good one is just that. And can be limited to that. The totality of a person -- which may include their sex -- is what gets women caught up. Not just getting laid well.

Trust me. Its not that deep. At least not at this point in my life.
On July 28, 2010, 1:29 pm Wood says:
I hear you Pink, but all this "casualness" in regarding sex is like sound, it never dissapate, but only recreate in another place and time... (E,W&F)...lol.  Just like the next brotha, I love it and had tons of fun and fond moments with you sistas engaging in it with committed and uncommitted sistas.

I truly believe that all that "sound/casual sex" is being recreated in how many of these brothas view and respond to you sistas.

I remember older women telling a young inexperience mother not to pick up a baby everytime they cry.  I heard them say how it will come back and bite you later on... its conditioning.

You sistas get super pissed at all this casualness that you are seeing in these so-called educated and "mature" brotha at a time when you sistas want to get serious.  You guys always mention... "at this point in my life".  
I constantly hear this and see this all over the place.
Pink, I kid you not, I was told about this situation, I saw it coming before I got to the age range when many of you sistas reaches this "point in my life", I saw it when I reached that point, and I see and hear the results.

Just like constantly conditioning that baby by always picking it up every time it cries, and now after all this "careful" conditioning, this mother is super pissed at this spoiled child who constantly cries.

I believe you guys help facilitate this casual enviroment in too many brothas, by constantly and frequently reciprocating in these same types of relationships that are now pissing too many of you off.

I shouldn't have to say it, but I will because somebody will say "I didn't do that".

Every sista has not done this, but the climate that has been created, snares those sistas as a whole.

Your "Undecided" situation is highly predictable, widespread, and has been very consistant.  Sista after sista after sistas have been saying the same things.
On July 28, 2010, 1:50 pm Wood says:
I'm not blaming you sistas entirely, but I do feel that you guys are instrumental in controlling the romantic climate that we exist in today.

busting a nut really does not equal love or even real affection But imagine trying to "bust a nut" with the same guy you seek a serious relationship with.  That is basically what you sistas are doing, but it is with a guy with the same disposition, but a different face and place.  Even while in college, we always talked about how sistas are "fucking"... we loved it.  At 25, men talk about how you sistas are f.cking.  At 35, same things.  Just like the Sistahood know and talk about  matching your purse with your belt and shoes, the Brothahood talk about how you guys are out hear sexing.  For years, at least in my circle of friends were constantly talking about how we casually sexed and freaked you... committed or not.

I'm seriously doubting that this was limited to my circle of friends or the men I've had contact with.

Imagine, you sistas trying to get these same guys to take you guys serious.  You are trying to get men who have very similar collective experiences and exposures to you guys to take you guys seriously.


I hear you guys, but I'm looking at you sistas like you gots to be kidding.

The younger generation will have a tougher time than you guys, they are off the hook their casualness and freakiness.  With their pickings being more limited than you guys, it isn't going to be looking good for them.

As a man, I don't mind one bit with fond moments to reflect on, but it is this constant blaming why we do or don't do this, etc, finger pointing, Mary J Bligh singing about how a brotha ain't right...

That is the part that I have an issue with.
On July 28, 2010, 2:06 pm pinkribbngal says:
@wood... seriously? so, if sistas stop fcking then who would you fck? another man? that random chick who decides to buck the system and freak anyway?

ohhhh... what you're spitting is plucking a nerve for me. i am not a feminist. i don't claim that label nor womanist either... but it seems absolutely absurd for any man to think that its a problem or an issue that a woman wants to engage in sex and enjoy herself and still be considered (gasp) a normal woman. not a floozy. not a tramp. just a woman.

so... men having casual sex is fine because that is what men do. or men should do. but a woman having casual sex is a problem because... women shouldn't have sex? casual or not. we should only engage in sexual relations if a man has agreed (or been coerced/manipulated/tricked) into being in a relationship so he can get laid?

sigh.

yeah... that's not my reality bruh. sorry. i hear you in saying that women are complicit in the situations where they are in relationships that don't satisfy or meet their needs. i agree. but i agree because i always think it takes two to do anything in a relationship -- get together or break up. it takes both people.

reading your responses makes me think that your advice to me would be to hold out on sex with a guy until he agrees to be in a relationship with me. that makes me laugh because i know men who will wait however long it takes to get the panties... and still leave. coercion and manipulation is not a basis for a relationship.

if i'm misunderstanding you, please clarify. make it plain like i'm a 4th grader because this comment sounds dangerously mad. edges really close to saying a woman's value is between her legs. my heart is not wrapped in my vagina.
On July 28, 2010, 2:23 pm pinkribbngal says:
@wood... interesting that you mention younger folks. i had a truly interesting conversation with a young guy the other day -- he is about 27 or so and married. he told me that he and his wife have an open marriage and he explained what that meant. i won't go into the details but he said that basically he and his wife looked at what their parents went through and decided to do it a different way.

i think that will be the legacy of the younger folks honestly... they are going to continue to do things the way that they want to and make it their normal because the examples they saw growing up just didn't seem to work out well enough.
On July 28, 2010, 6:44 pm Wood says:
LOL, Smacking forehead... Pink, everyone has an opinion on this BM/BF situation, and I'm just "hanging my hat" as to the whys regarding this issue from my point of view.


reading your responses makes me think that your advice to me would be to hold out on sex with a guy until he agrees to be in a relationship with me.

Not you "Pink", you as in sistas.  Why would you think I was specifically talking to or about one person in regards to such a large scale situation.

My thing is, aren't you guys into this no more BS, raising the standands and expectation, etc, once you get older and are looking for meaningful relationship.

it takes both people.  Correct, but I'm detecting one of the two genders having an issue with how things are working out...agree?

Hey sista, I don't have a dog in this fight, because as a brotha, things are great from our end.  There is no Mary J., Beonce`, Michelle Cassette songs, national, TV specials why the brotha are having relationships issues, etc.

We don't have these types of songs, nor these types of post...I'm not sure the Brothahood see an issue.  No use trying to correct a problem when you don't perceive one.
edges really close to saying a woman's value is between her legs. my heart is not wrapped in my vagina. Pink, don't be upset, ok... I'm just talking to you in a plain and even tone...ok.

My question to you/sistas, is what message that many of these brothas are sending to you regarding your value, when they are constantly trying to stay between your legs without a commitment and without regards to the other qualities that many sistas feel they are offering in a relationship?

Now Pink, as a brotha, I'm shooting my own self in the foot, because I get absolutely nothing from my sentiments or comments on this issue.
On July 28, 2010, 7:01 pm Wood says:
I bet if I was standing in front of you talking, you would knock the sh.t out of me...lol.
On July 28, 2010, 7:01 pm pinkribbngal says:
@wood... why are you assuming that its an age issue? you keep responding about women reaching a certain age and then wanting certain things but i don't understand that. the confusion between one person wanting one thing and another person wanting something different doesn't seem to hinge on age. that confusion pops up generally when two people aren't clear in their communication with each other.

brothers are trying to get between legs for the same reasons that women are opening them... folks like sex. its pretty basic.

i don't believe that men don't like or want relationships either. i think that they (like women) want what they want... the problem is when people aren't clear or honest about what they want.

sex does not equal a relationship. please really think that part through... sex is a part of a relationship if both people agree to it but it is not the totally of what they experience together.

what message are brothers sending? depends on who you ask i suppose. i actually know guys who want to be in committed relationships. strange... i'm sure but true. some of them are guys who are on this site too. (shrug) just because you want a relationship doesn't mean that you want one with the person you just met or just started dating. that's why you date, to figure that out.

 the message that i get from brothers is that i need to consider dating younger men. lol... i'm just having difficulty finding younger men really intriguing beyond a physical attraction. that said...

we're all looking for something. if you don't know what you're looking for, you won't find it. if you do, you should be able to recognize when its there (or when its not).  in the specifics about this dating scenario, we both knew what we wanted (or didn't want) but we didn't want to accept that the person we were getting to know didn't want the same.
On July 28, 2010, 7:03 pm pinkribbngal says:
LOL @ wood.  not at all. i'm not angry at all. not even a little bit. just confused about your perspective. if we were talking face to face you might be surprised at how flat my tone really was...

folks believe what they believe. its all good. just conversation.
On July 28, 2010, 7:04 pm Wood says:
I just had some down time watching the new, but if you can't have a simple discussion without getting so emotional, I'm done with this topic.
On July 28, 2010, 7:10 pm pinkribbngal says:
lol @ wood. if you think this is emotional... then yes, its time for you to be done. i'm far from emotional about this. (shrug)  like i said before... it is what it is, folks believe what they believe. for me, this is just conversation.

no harm. no foul. peace brother.

i'm giggling at the television (living single is on) and i'm about as far from being emotional or angry as i could be. don't read more into my content than is there.
On July 28, 2010, 7:42 pm Wood says:
You acted like you were about to scratch my eyes out.
Tomorrow, my fiance` is having some of her man hating GFs over our house for a get together.  These sistas are having these same issues, as many of my sista friend and most serious minded sistas I know. It as if it is some sort of national epidemic.

Pink, don't ever think that any comments I make comes from any type of "high horse" position looking down at anyone...
the horse that I sit on is as big as a poodle. 

why are you assuming that its an age issue?  Isn't that what you guys say... "Now that I reached a certain age"..."maybe when I was younger, but now"... "I don't have time to do this or that any longer".

sex does not equal a relationship. please really think that part through... sex is a part of a relationship if both people agree to it but it is not the totally of what they experience together.  Pink, you are correct, and I can attest that even these "undefined" and titleless relationship are often more than just sex... I had plenty of them.  You go to movies, talk, hold hands, share your day, your problems, etc, but in so many cases, the woman start to want some definition/title with the man who she enjoys in more ways than sex.

The BS and many times, the "confusion" starts when she starts to want more than what they have.  Many times, the sista just conclude at the end what was evident from the start... negro is BSing her for more uncommited sex and using up her precious time.

I've done that.

You guys keep complaining about the same things I've done...lol.
On July 28, 2010, 7:56 pm pinkribbngal says:
lol... not feeling you on the remark about your fiancee's friends. that's not cool at all. but... at any rate. the mention of my age is as applicable to how "he" reacts to me as is my breast size or my jeans size. its simply more information to make the story to flow.... just description to me.

well, we all want what we want. if you know or suspect that you want what you're not getting, you'd be crazy not to mention it to the person you're dating. i don't understand why that part seems to be difficult.

i could be wrong but i don't get it. i've tried the be silent and go along trick... doesn't work for me. works for others though. (shrug)

men complain about things that women find quite basic too... they just do it differently. neither gender has this relationship thing down cold. if they did, sites like this wouldn't flourish.
On July 28, 2010, 8:01 pm Wood says:
but it seems absolutely absurd for any man to think that its a problem or an issue that a woman wants to engage in sex and enjoy herself and still be considered (gasp) a normal woman. not a floozy. not a tramp. just a woman.

And you sistas are women, and I'm agreeing with you 100%.  My girl's friend stated to her the other day something to the effect of... I am tired of these doggesh a.ss nuggas thinking they can get some a.ss, but don't want to get in a relationship. 

It seems like that is all you guys yap about. 

I'm basically stated that if these consistantly high standards and expectation that many of you sistas are always talking about implimenting on the Brothahood, could be implemented at an earlier age right off the bat, instead of expecting us to push away from all that "goodness" at the table when you guys reaches your thirties, you may get better results.

Like trying to stop pee after you are already peeing... easier to do it before you pee...lol.

don't pop me... I'm just being silly.
On July 28, 2010, 8:11 pm pinkribbngal says:
lol... if you practice your kegels faithfully, you should be able to stop the flow on command. :)

i see where we're off-track. um, i don't have a problem with engaging in consensual safe sex. and i'm not equating sex to a relationship -- which that remark that your girl's friend made seems to do.

right now, there are a lot of lonely folks in the world, so people talk about what matters to them. interestingly enough though, i've been talking about relationships between black men and black women for a long time... this isn't a new dialogue for me.

but i hear you... just don't agree w/your perspective.
On July 28, 2010, 8:15 pm Wood says:
Me and my girl was talking about how and the circumstances how we became a couple.  I mentioned to WO the other day how women never ask me about my past, etc.  My girl asked me many questions, but it was will after a year into the relationship. You see, for the first three months, our relationship was "undefined", just like many of he other sista friend.  I treated her well, we conducted ourselves just like GF/BF would when starting out.  You see, when we first met, she told me that she just wanted to raise her girls, and didn't want a relationship... I knew better once things got going.  Later, after feeling sunk in, she told  me that she wanted to bring up the topic of our "relationship"... I could sense she was apprehensive about this, but I didn't say anything.

Instead, when the opportunity arose, I introduced her as my "GF" to someone, and she told me that is when she knew that we were a couple and could feel a bit easy about the situation.

You see Pink, in that exact undefined situaiton, I have kept silent and never mentioned any status beside... "friend" or introduced her by her name.  I think this is the part of the relationship where as a sista feel a need to say or inquire about a few things.  And like a few sista found out when dealing with me, this is the moment where the BS starts.
On July 28, 2010, 8:35 pm Wood says:
It really struck a nerve for me.  I just spent 2-3 months in a very undefined relationship. To say that the lack of definition drove me batty... would be very unfair and critical to bats. (laughs) But it did bother me intensely that I was dating someone who refused to date me back.

Oh... before this gets too wayward... he was a wonderful guy. Always a gentleman, lots of fun... just no commitment. And while normally that would not have bothered me a lot, at this point in my life it is a true waste of time. To look at us from the outside, you could have easily thought that we had been together for some time and were a happy couple. In my words we were dating. In his, we were "kicking it".

You can't connect my comments to your post?  To me, it appeared that you found yourself in the same type of outwardly BF/GF relationship that many of the woman I delt with were in. 

i see where we're off-track. um, i don't have a problem with engaging in consensual safe sex.  Ok, but does the problem begin when this consentual safe sex is wrapped up in a GF/BF package, but without the title or definition?  I must be reading things upside down, but that is what I was picking up from your post, and my comments were geared towards those exact type of situations.

Treating the woman very well, especially during the beginning, plays upon the endless "hope" many woman have... you have to capture that, along with captureing her emotions with some good loving...

That is Brothahood 101, I learn that while in college.

I do that to every sista I date... whether I want a serious relationship with her or not.  They don't know the difference between the two, because there isn't one, until the definitions and titles get tossed in.

These are "Trade Secrets"...don't tell a sole I told you this, or I may get my card pulled...lol

Is that what you came across?
On July 28, 2010, 9:01 pm pinkribbngal says:
hahaha... @ wood. awww... thanks for giving up the trade secrets. well, i'm glad that it worked out for you and your lady. that's beautiful. maybe she recognized that you were worth waiting for... (shrug) but not every woman is going to feel that way about a guy. and i guess that's part of the weeding out process... the ones (like me) who can't handle it... aren't the ones for those guys.

i have to say its pretty sad to see that someone would want to "play upon the endless hope that many women have"... because that is more coercion and manipulation. but whatever works for you... it just doesn't work for me.
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