July 29th 2010
Declare it Dead Already
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by JustAThought on June 18, 2009, 11:27 am in Dating
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20 comments |
That's it! It is high time to call the time of death on "Blame it on the Black Woman" syndrome. Every time I turn around, some man - particularly a Black Man - it's quick to criticize women - particularly Black Women. If it's not that we are too into appearance, it's that we don't take care of our bodies. We are too religious, or we have too many kids. We're simultaneously too picky and yet don't have any standards. We're too needy and too independent. And the list goes on.
Underlying all this is the meme that black women are not desirable by any metric, and that we willingly morphed into this state without any outside interference. Because, ya know, we're just the stereotype.
BULLPUCKY!
I'm all for addressing issues, and all for exploring the reasons why people (men AND women) continue destructive behaviors that prevent their own happiness. I'm even for gripes about bad experiences - stereotypical behavior included. Heck, even the challenges that face relationships between black men and black women won't be solved without discussing them. However, to quote one of my favorite bloggers, "if there are challenges in the relationships between black men and black women, they will never be solved as long as we are obsessed with heaping all the blame on one party."
Underlying all this is the meme that black women are not desirable by any metric, and that we willingly morphed into this state without any outside interference. Because, ya know, we're just the stereotype.
BULLPUCKY!
I'm all for addressing issues, and all for exploring the reasons why people (men AND women) continue destructive behaviors that prevent their own happiness. I'm even for gripes about bad experiences - stereotypical behavior included. Heck, even the challenges that face relationships between black men and black women won't be solved without discussing them. However, to quote one of my favorite bloggers, "if there are challenges in the relationships between black men and black women, they will never be solved as long as we are obsessed with heaping all the blame on one party."
She goes on to say "You want to talk about black romance? Fine. Let's talk about how the stress caused by racism and marginalization effect interpersonal relationships. Let's talk about poverty and the welfare system. Let's talk about European beauty standards. Let's talk about sexualization of young girls and boys. Let's talk about young black men with targets on their backs in the neighborhood. Let's talk about the educational disparities between the sexes. All of these things have [great] impact on black romance and marriage."
Black women don't exist in a vacuum. And frankly, because we are women, we have been subject to the same institutional patriarchy that completely denigrated our personhood, in addition to the ills of racism. And a good measure of that comes from our male counterparts.
I'm not saying things can't be improved, but I am so sick and tired of all the "suggestions" about what black women need to do. We're already mules of the world, and everyone seems keen on adding to that load with nary the offer of help or assistance. Furthermore, these suggestions as to how we can improve, move past bad experience, and basically fit someone else's categories of what is or is not acceptable, are never coupled with any statement of what men can do to improve themselves. I doubt if President Obama had told black women to stop wearing revealing or tight fitting clothing anyone would have had a problem with it. Tell a man that he needs to stop chasing easy coochie, and to be more selective about who he puts his penis into, and you will likely get called everything but a child of God. Tell a man that he has to forgive and move on after a heartbreak, and not to judge every woman by one woman's transgressions, and you might as well talk to a wall. Why is it that women must always, always, ALWAYS overlook, forgive, change, reevaluate, etc. - and men get a pass?
So, in the interests of more productive discourse, let's stop it with the diatribes about what's wrong with black women.
And with that, I'm officially off of my soapbox (for now).
***you can read the blog entry that the quotes were taken from at whattamisaid.blogspot.com
Join the conversation, add your comment20 MEMBER COMMENT(S)
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On June 18, 2009, 11:55 am travilly says:
*fingersnaps*
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On June 18, 2009, 11:59 am MassAppeal says:
Not disagreeing with you at all but this blog is bias and off balance. Where's the other side of the story? Be honest JAT there are alot of women who contribute to those stereotypes. Black men are criticized just as much through the media and even black women. The lack of respect given to black men is at an all time low. Sisters are quickly beginning to dating other races thinking it they can provide a better situation when most white men look at sisters as "trophies" with thick bodies and only if you have European features. If not, they wouldn't give you a second look.
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On June 18, 2009, 12:22 pm JustAThought says:
@ Mass:
1. There are several points in this blog where I do not absolve black women of bad behavior. First 2 sentences of third paragraph, the 2nd quote from whattamisaid. 2. There definitely are some women that contribute to stereotypes, and those instances should not be ignored (3rd sentence, 3rd paragraph). 3. I agree that Black Men are criticized by society at large and a good number of black women. I also agree that this needs to stop. As a group, Black people cannot get anywhere if we continually tear each other down. However, just because Black men have a hard lot in life does not absolve them of any sort of responsibility, nor does it excuse them for criticism. Yet any time a black woman wants to address an issue concerning black men - no matter how tactfully or maturely she brings it up - you better believe black men are going to come out of the woodwork denigrating and belittling her and the issue, as if she is out of line for calling a wrong a wrong. 4. As for the last part of your comment, it smacks of privileged patriarchy, sexism, and internalized racism: Black women are only desirbale for their voluptuous bodies, since they are hypersexed and only good for screwing. The only desirable black women have european features. Black women shouldn't date anything other than black men because a black man is the only thing you can get and those men don't want you anyway. Get a grip. |
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On June 18, 2009, 12:28 pm travilly says:
"isters are quickly beginning to dating other races"
gee, i wonder why.... |
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On June 18, 2009, 12:37 pm Dashon says:
@Justa: I agree with the majority of what you've written, where I cross the street is that its a problem that exists on both sides. The walking wounded are live & in living color with both sexes. I would love to discuss solutions...in fact have gone on record here on the Hill with that very concept...RickG picked up on it in a "Just Talk" post and it got very little to no play....so perhaps the bigger problem is an unwillingness by folks to just "declare it dead already". To piggyback on your moniker...Just a thought.
@Mass: Not sure what's happening in your city, but in my travels around the country I still meet a large number of Black women who have not and will not give up on the Black man...myself included. I think our efforts to hold y'all accountable for your actions are often misconstrued with criticism versus constructive feedback (despite how Corporate parlays the terms--there is a difference). I believe that while we (men & women) want the same things in life...there are some fundamental differences in how we relate to one another, and both sides are both sides are struggling to close that gap. As far as white men seeking out ONLY the sistahs with Europeon features...that would be a N.O. I'm about as chocolate and ethnic as you can get...and I get play from white boys ALL the time...perhaps its just a jungle fever thing, but my point is that their attentions are not just restricted to a certain type of Black women, although I will give you this: when you see them married to or in a committed relationship with one...generally it is the sistah with the Euro features or mixed heirtage. |
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On June 18, 2009, 12:58 pm JustAThought says:
@ Dashon:
I respect your position. The majority of my blog focused on a particular meme coming from some Black men. I don't ignore the walking wounded, especially not those sisters that have unhealed battlescars. And I don't ignore the bad behavior some of my sisters perpetrate. I've gotten many a tongue lashing from a woman friend or relative when I called them on their behavior. Heck, for a portion of my life, I was not a pleasant woman to date because of my own issues, so I know that you have to actively deal with your mess before you can even think about having a man respond to you in the way you desire. However, I get so disappointed in the fact that any feedback by black women is automatically labeled criticism, without any investigation. |
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On June 18, 2009, 1:08 pm MassAppeal says:
Well said Dashon and I agree with you and others that we do need to start talking more about solutions than to quickly tear each other down. My point about black women dating outside their races is because some feel they may receive better treatment when in fact men will be men, they will cheat and dissrespect women period, no matter the race.
So why Travily why do blacks (men and women) crossover and date outside their races since you threw that out there? Or do you just wonder? @JAT Not all feedback is from women is labled as criticism but when delivered make sure it's balanced and constructive argument/debate. One in particular is that these black women not demading respect, not setting expectations from black men and ultimately black women are the ones to make their own decisions on what type of black man you deal with on the regular. |
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On June 18, 2009, 1:16 pm Dashon says:
@Justa: "However, I get so disappointed in the fact that any feedback by black women is automatically labeled criticism, without any investigation."
Agreed. I guess on a positive note, I've seen guys that initially lashed out or appeared to ignore constructive feedback...acknowledge that they heard it by modifying their behavior in alignment with the feedback they received. I think a man's initial reaction to a woman's feedback is to take a defensive stance, or try to flip it on her, (a learned response in my opinion), but after they've had some time to think about it...a mature-minded & conscious man will evaluate what's been said and self-correct...if he feels its in order. |
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On June 18, 2009, 1:18 pm travilly says:
@mass - my comment was only mildly sarcastic
one thing i have experienced in my short time on Earth is that sistas have been ride or die for black men (as a whole) no matter what. it's only been in the past...i'll say 5 years that i've seen any significant number of women "cross over". by cross over i mean they were not, before then, dating outside of the race. i make the distinction because i know more than a few black women who have been international lovers from the gate. i'm guessing they are going over and NOT coming back because they ARE tired of the abuse (literal and figurative) being heaped on them from the very men (as a group) that they are standing behind. i've never believed the grass to be greener for ANYTHING, but when your mama, sister, cousin, best friend, aunts, big mama, miss niecy down the street, teachers, hairdresser, and Crackhead Mary from West 14th have ALLLLL been dogged out by black men, i can see why some black women might think it will be better somewhere else. me...until i run through every black man on Earth, I refuse to believe that there isn't a good one in the bunch. black men been dating out the race since Creation so no big mystery there...yall love women!! And/or...yall think black women are too mouthy/independent/bossy/blah blah blah. and THAT'S where my sarcasm came from. {generalization} Black men always got some reason why they can't deal with a black woman. But IMHO, the black woman didn't get to be that way in a vacuum. It's in direct response to how they have been treated by black men. so black men need to start blaming their brethren and holding their brethren accountable for the way they been treating black women all these years such that the image of the shrew is predominant. {/generalization} that's not saying we as Black women don't need work and COUNSELING. but it would help if our MEN owned up to |
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On June 18, 2009, 1:18 pm travilly says:
their role in this mess. which was the purpose of this blog to begin with.
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On June 18, 2009, 1:23 pm JustAThought says:
@ Mass:
In the future, I'll attempt to tone down the more fiery rhetoric. I still suspect that I could serve this up in a bowl of honey, and some people (men) will still get offended. As for black women taking responsibilities for the decisions that led to poor relationships with black men, I'm all for it. But; if at midnight tonight; every black woman was gifted with the most demure, respectful behavior and the tenacity to adhere to the highest of standards in regrads to how she wanted to be treated; I suspect that more black men than not would fall short of overcoming the negative attitudes that have plagued black relationships. It's a problem with more than one side. |
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On June 18, 2009, 1:31 pm MassAppeal says:
Well said ladies. I do agree that some black men need to own up to why black women act and feel they way they do. We are a major part of the disconnect between men and women for a ton of reasons.
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On June 18, 2009, 1:40 pm Jensk8 says:
Can I jump in without getting hurt? LOL
This is such a touchy subject. I perferably date black men, I'm hispanic. What I have expereienced is that brothers stay with their own. Yes some do cross over but the majority stick to their sisters. So, I don't understand why such disconnect amongst black men and women. |
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On June 18, 2009, 1:47 pm SoulonArt says:
I apologize because I havent read all the comments above so I may be redundant, but Ive always thought the black "man" was public enemy #1. Black women have had to carry alot and I respect that. And us black men have not always manned up. But it still seems more of the socio-economic fire is aimed at us, not black women. The black man continues to be the stepping stool of society and Ive never used it as a crutch nor blamed our women for our plight.
Although I dont necessarity agree with your assesment, I do however commend your ettempts to push the dialogue to another level. There are many issues that hit at the root of many of our problems yet to have serious discussion. |
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On June 18, 2009, 1:48 pm MassAppeal says:
Jensk8 alot of has to do with phsycholigical reasons and the lack of respect between the two genders. I would also think our upbringing and the large amount of dysfunctional families play a major part of the disconnection as well to name a few.
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On June 18, 2009, 2:05 pm Jensk8 says:
Mass - Gender in general, right? Because every ethnic group has issues and stereotypes when it comes to relationships between men and women.
I do have to say that some black men have criticized sisters behavior or attitudes, and vice versa. It's like a love-hate relationship. I agree with you that "men will be men, they will cheat and dissrespect women period, no matter the race." |
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On June 18, 2009, 2:20 pm Jensk8 says:
Have any of you read "The Isis Papers" by Dr. Frances Cress Welsing?
It's an interesting book which puts current issues among black men and women due to african american history. |
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On June 18, 2009, 2:22 pm MassAppeal says:
Thats correct Jensk8- Genders in general most definitely.
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On June 18, 2009, 2:47 pm JustAThought says:
Very interesting dialogue going on here. I wait to see what others have to say.
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On June 18, 2009, 3:59 pm girlygirl33 says:
JAT...girlfriend you said so much in this piece and I have to say I agree with you. While I know black men get their fare share of mess tossed at them. They are still men...we are always a double minority...dealing with issues of race and sexism does put us at the bottom of the barrel.
And you are right...blaming women is a easy out used by some who really don't want to comfront their own issues but it is on both sides...no different than me using my past man issues to dictate new relationships. How we fix it...I wish I knew. As far as dating outside of my race, I have found way more white men approach me than black but mostly because of the hyper sexed sterotype. They see the porn star fantasy...but I will say most black women aren't dating outside their race...but Black men do on a regular. So I'm not sure how the tables turned on that one. It's all part of the blame game in the battle of the sexes. No one wants to take accountability for their own actions so they blame the opposite sex for being the way they are. Kinda what I was talking about in my "let a man be a man?" blog. Folks can't have it both ways...but we are greedy and selfish and egotistical when it comes to how we view one another so I'm not sure if it will get any better soon. In the meantime, black men will continue to blame us for their many missteps and bad treatment and vice versa... |
